DELPHI One witness was heard day 8 in Delphi. Indiana State Police Lieutenant Jerry Holeman. Holeman is the lead investigator in the case. His testimony largely centered around the interrogation he had with Richard Allen before he was arrested. Holeman said going into the interview he believed without a doubt it was Allens round found at the crime scene.In the interview, he says Allen denied any involvement in the murders even when asked 20 to 25 times.Holeman shared interview tactics police often use: build rapport present evidence lie/overreact to person read body languageOctober 26, 2022: Allen's interrogationHoleman testified to the details of his interview with Allen at the Lafayette ISP police post. At this point Allen hadn't been arrested. He testified that Allen was read his Miranda Rights, and continued. According to Holeman, this portion of the interview was not recorded due to technical difficulties.Round found at the crime scenePolice found a single Winchester .40 caliber Smith and Wesson cartridge at the crime scene between the bodies of Abby Williams and Libby German. Much of Holeman's questions centered around that round and trying to figure out how it got there. Holeman said he believed "without a doubt" it was a round that cycled through Allen's gun. He believed that, he said, because of the forensic examiners conclusion that was made. Holeman said he worked to build rapport with Allen by talking about their similar military background and guns.Holeman testified that during the interview with Allen he shared no one had ever borrowed any of this cloths, car, or his gun. Allen never provided an explanation to how a round they found at the scene, believed to be cycled through is gun, could've gotten there. Allen told police he never carried his gun unless he was fishing or mushroom hunting, and that he didn't have it when on the trails on February 13, 2017.Holeman testified Allen said, "There is no way it's my bullet or that it came from my gun."While Allen was asked how he normally carried a gun he said he would use a side holster.Allen told Holeman he usually carried one round in his chamber.Testimony revealed Allen continued to deny participating in the murders more than 20 times. "It's already over."Holeman testified earlier in the trial that Allen told him "it's already over." when police were searching his home. Holeman tetified he asked Allen about that previous comment made and why he said that. He said, "The damage was done. You already interviewed my neighbors and coworkers, they all think I am guilty."Holeman testifed Allen said something to the affect about it has ruined his life. Interview technique of lyingHoleman testified that often times police will lie in interrogation interviews to elicit a reaction from a possible suspect. Testimony shared he told Allen there were witnesses who said they saw Allen on the bridge.He also told Allen the video Libby German took on her phone of "Bridge Guy" was determined to be him by an expert. Allen continued to deny at this point. Holeman said he lied to Allen and talked about the death penalty and how it was still on the line. He said Allen said, "I'm not going to tell you something I didn't do.""I didn't do it."Holeman said the entire time Allen continued to deny any involvement into the murders of the girls or even knowing them.Holeman testified that Allen denied 20 to 25 times. At one point Holeman said Allen said, "I don't care what you do to me. I am not going to tell you I did something I didn't do."Holeman said Allen got angry during the interview and started cussing, Holeman says he matched his tone. During testimony Holman said he began asking a series of questions about if Allen was on the trails and what he was wearing. He said Allen responded, "I already told you I was out there. I already told you what I was wearing."Holeman said at one point he told Allen he believed he was a good man. He says Allen responded, "What kind of good person would kill two girls."At the conclusion of the interview Holeman testified Allen said, "Take all your evidence and just arrest me."During cross examination Baldwin questioned Holeman's interrogation methods.He asked why he told Allen "investigators want to lock you up and throw away the key."Baldwin also asked why Holeman tried to make Allen feel like he should confess by bringing his wife and daughter up.Baldwin asked why Holeman said, "You're going to drag your wife and daughter through this because you're too f*****g bull headed to get out in front of it."Holeman testified he was only trying to elicit a response from Allen. Still Allen denied any involvement. Deception from intervieweesHoleman testified to how he works to determine if someone is being deceptive while being interviewed. He said he has experience, which helps, but that he has learned to pick up on ques. body language eye contact (looking away) touching of the face hand movementsHoleman testified that Allen showed no major signs of deception, and they were very subtle.Missing interview tapesDuring cross examination, the defense questioned the constitutionality of the interview.Defense attorney Andrew Baldwin asked why the beginning of Allen's interview, where Holeman said he reminded Allen of his Miranda Rights wasn't recorded. He said there were "technical difficulties" and that portion of the interview wasn't captured. Holeman said the interview was stopped by another investigator when they realized it wasn't recorded. They got it fixed and proceeded. Baldwin then brings up how that is just one of many "missing" video tape recordings in this case. Multiple people involved?Baldwin, during cross examination, started asking about law enforcement's "theory" that there was only one person involved in the murders of Abby and Libby. Holeman said he believes "now" that Richard Allen is the only person responsible. Baldwin presses on this. Holeman said, "I thought at one point in time, there might be more than one person involved. but the longer the time went on the less I thought that."Holeman believes that if more than one person was involved they would've talked by now. He said in his experience people usually talk and rat each other out.Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland pushed back on the defense's efforts to lay a belief that more than one person was involved.McLeland asked Holeman if there was any evidence anyone else was at the end of the bridge in the "bridge guy video." Holeman said "no."Holeman also said he believes it's "bridge guy's voice" heard in the video Libby took on her phone. Baldwin asks Holeman if there was speculation in the beginning that two people could've been at the end of the bridge. Holeman said, "Yes, but there was no way to prove it."Strand of hair in Abby's handBaldwin begins asking questions about the strand of hair found in Abby's hand at the crime scene.From previous testimony we know that experts have said it was a female's hair and a possible relative of Libby.Baldwin questioned why investigators never tested DNA from Libby's family when they discovered that.Holeman said, "We decided not to test family hair because of resources at the time and we had no family female suspect."Sticks on the girls During cross examination Baldwin asked about the sticks found on Abby and Libby. Holeman said he believed they were used to conceal/ camouflage the bodies or for an "undoing."He also said he doesn't believe the bodies were positioned. Mistakes in the investigationBaldwin quesitoned Holeman about mistakes made in the case. Under oath, Holeman did admit there has been mistakes made.What's next?We are expecting to hear form a DNA expert soon. Also, the defense said in court that the jury will be shown the interviews Allen had with police.